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Fanatic Row
DED Drug Enforcement Department
5
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Posted - 2013.01.15 20:02:00 -
[1] - Quote
Sofia Wolf wrote:Let start with a good part of his article. He is correct that nerfing Jump drive calibration alone will make 0.0 space trade harder, and I agree this is not a desirable outcome. How is that not a desirable outcome?
Sorry, but 0.0 shouldn't use Jita as a shopping mall. 0.0 should rely on their own industry; of course for that to happen other changes need to come as well. None are however going to be of any value when going to Jita and filling up your JF is a simple task for the individual. |
Fanatic Row
DED Drug Enforcement Department
7
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Posted - 2013.01.15 21:12:00 -
[2] - Quote
Shadowschild wrote:Fanatic Row wrote:How is that not a desirable outcome?
Sorry, but 0.0 shouldn't use Jita as a shopping mall. 0.0 should rely on their own industry; of course for that to happen other changes need to come as well. None are however going to be of any value when going to Jita and filling up your JF is a simple task for the individual. The day ABC + M ores stop making their way up there, is the day high sec goes to **** in a handbasket. As for the cyno talk, listen, when your defending space from multiple entry points you need the ability to field ships (carriers) & supplies (jump freighters). The longer the range the better! No, it's the day ABCM becomes valuable enough for people to care about them again.
Nobody is saying trade between hi-sec and 0.0 should be thwarted completely, but if you're living in the far outer reaches of 0.0, importing should be the least preferable way of getting your stuff, as opposed to buying something produced locally.
If exporting low-ends is financially viable, go for it. Having to import most stuff however, because the mechanics suck, when everything needed to produce it is basically floating right outside your station GÇô that's just dumb.
This is about power projection tho.
If reducing jump ranges would help reduce the problem, I'd be all for it. It will just make it slower and more expensive however, but still doable. Which will lead to the ones poopsocking the most having the upper hand. History has shown what that does for burnout and general "fun" life out in 0.0 GÇô and I'm pretty sure nobody but the most serious of basement-dwellers and RMTers are interested in that. |
Fanatic Row
DED Drug Enforcement Department
7
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Posted - 2013.01.15 21:45:00 -
[3] - Quote
Andski wrote:iskflakes wrote:A cyno mass limit is the right choice because it doesn't hurt individual pilots. Want to move a capital? No problem. Want to supply nullsec with a couple of jump freighters at the same time? No problem. Want to drop a few dreads or triage carriers into a fight? No problem. Want to move 350 supercapitals to the other side of the map within 5 minutes? Nope.jpg. Super blobs should have to be deployed long in advance of their usage. If you want to drop in unannounced to a fight, then do it with 5-10 supers, not 350. "I want to be able to stomp people without risk of interference from PL" "I want to play EVE without billion ISK ships CCP can't get to scale at all; ruining it en masse"
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Fanatic Row
DED Drug Enforcement Department
8
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Posted - 2013.01.15 21:47:00 -
[4] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:FourierTransformer wrote:Yes only CFC, HBC, Solar, etc. have any right to discuss jump drives. Never mind that everyone from WH to NPC 0.0 uses carriers and JF's all the damn time. Tell me more about WH corps using jump drives. Hint: WHs with enough mass to allow capitals, usually don't exit in hi-sec  |
Fanatic Row
DED Drug Enforcement Department
10
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Posted - 2013.01.15 22:17:00 -
[5] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:"I've never even been in nullsec but I have an opinion on supercaps anyway!" "Everyone in 0.0 has hi-sec ISK alts; except me!"
Seriously, that schtick is getting old. Even if I had never been in 0.0, it's not like all those pro 0.0 players have done such an awesome job tending to their own sandbox. |
Fanatic Row
DED Drug Enforcement Department
11
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Posted - 2013.01.15 22:43:00 -
[6] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Fanatic Row wrote:Seriously, that schtick is getting old. Even if I had never been in 0.0, it's not like all those pro 0.0 players have done such an awesome job tending to their own sandbox. We've done just fine, thank you. Yes, that's all you hear these days from 0.0 players; how it's so alive and thriving.
Guess it is, if what you want to do is sit and milk ISK in the spirit of Vuk Lau GÇô for the rest, not so much. |
Fanatic Row
DED Drug Enforcement Department
11
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Posted - 2013.01.15 23:07:00 -
[7] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Fanatic Row wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Fanatic Row wrote:Seriously, that schtick is getting old. Even if I had never been in 0.0, it's not like all those pro 0.0 players have done such an awesome job tending to their own sandbox. We've done just fine, thank you. Yes, that's all you hear these days from 0.0 players; how it's so alive and thriving. Guess it is, if what you want to do is sit and milk ISK in the spirit of Vuk Lau GÇô for the rest, not so much. How much of it is our fault, and how much of it is game mechanics? I mean seriously, what do you expect us to do? And I didn't miss your Vuk Lau reference btw, but you aren't helping your argument by resorting to personal attacks. The mechanics were not opposed because everybody was happy about getting bigger and more expensive toys, with no thought about how it would play out in the long run. Pure selfishness and shortsightedness. You'd think people who had to deal with AoE doomsdays would have thought twice.
Now everyone is acting like they didn't ask for the changes; granted, some were forced on 0.0 by CCP but when it comes to supercaps everyone wanted to play "My ISK beats your ISK".
And "in the spirit of Vuk Lau" is hardly a personal attack. It's an attack on the playstyle of caring **** all for the enjoyment of the massess, in order to appease the egos of the few.
Turns out that being the King of the biggest sandcastle is no fun, when the peasants pity your position, instead of envying it.
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Fanatic Row
DED Drug Enforcement Department
11
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Posted - 2013.01.15 23:36:00 -
[8] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:yeah if i was to think of the top two things that RAZOR and Vuk Lau have been historically known to hate above all else, I'd say "lots of blues" and "presence of carebears" I think that equates as much to 0.0 players enjoying 0.0, as stabbing your eyes out does to enjoying, well, anything.
Piles of blue carebears were certainly not there to be part of 0.0 as such, they were there to do their mindless hi-sec activities, but in a place where the ISK could flow to the "right" people.
I certainly don't hear 0.0 players go; "Man, if we just had more ratting space, 0.0 would be FUN again!".
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Fanatic Row
DED Drug Enforcement Department
11
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Posted - 2013.01.15 23:56:00 -
[9] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:I wasn't actually talking about supercaps. Then what other mechanics on stuff with jump drives are you talking about?
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Fanatic Row
DED Drug Enforcement Department
11
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Posted - 2013.01.16 00:08:00 -
[10] - Quote
Natsett Amuinn wrote:Fanatic Row wrote:Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:yeah if i was to think of the top two things that RAZOR and Vuk Lau have been historically known to hate above all else, I'd say "lots of blues" and "presence of carebears" I think that equates as much to 0.0 players enjoying 0.0, as stabbing your eyes out does to enjoying, well, anything. Piles of blue carebears were certainly not there to be part of 0.0 as such, they were there to do their mindless hi-sec activities, but in a place where the ISK could flow to the "right" people. I certainly don't hear 0.0 players go; "Man, if we just had more ratting space, 0.0 would be FUN again!". Excuse me? If null sec had a better distribution of content within the very systems we live in, more people could have fun actually playing were they live. And that's only the umpteenth time I've personally said that. And many others have been saying the exact same thing. If you're not hearing it, it's because you choose not to. It's been said repeatedly. No, what is being said is that if there wasn't so much crappy 0.0 space, maybe alliances wouldn't have to hold so much of it.
I completely agree that a 0.0 system should be able to support more players than it currently can. It will do crap all for the power projection and SOV aspect of the argument tho.
The big powers don't hold all that space so they can rat in it. They hold it for the moons, or the rent.
That's all beside the point tho, my post was a response to someone insinuating that "the spirit of Vuk Lau" welcoming blues and carebears was somehow out of the goodness of their heart and concern for the enjoyment of the masses, and not a means to an end to line personal wallets.
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Fanatic Row
DED Drug Enforcement Department
12
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Posted - 2013.01.16 04:16:00 -
[11] - Quote
If there was any breathing going on in space, and the people doing the breathing were spaceships, and the beacon was anything like a fire, yes, one could easily argue that nonsense. Or, one could read between the lines and stop obviously trolling.
If enough ships huddle around a lighthouse, does the light go out?
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Fanatic Row
DED Drug Enforcement Department
13
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Posted - 2013.01.16 05:00:00 -
[12] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:Care to comment on the fact CCP has publicly acknowledged capital power projection is a major issue as per the fanfest video? Not that I don't agree with the issue, apart from your inane example, but CCP are also the people with quality judgement calls such as; AOE doomsdays and moon-goo "rebalance".
Not everything they think is golden and using it as some kind of "CCP said this, so you're wrong" in an argument on the forums, is akin to ratting someone out to mommy and daddy in order to "win".
You're more than welcome to point out where CCP might stand on an issue, but as for caring to comment on CCPs acknowledgment? That's pretty much all people are doing here, some just disagree. |
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